This is the March 2005 Middle Kingdom Letter of Acceptances and Returns for Escutcheon’s December 2004 and January 2005 Letter of Intent.

Unless otherwise noted, all clients will accept changes. Comments in braces {} were removed from the Letter of Intent sent to Laurel and the College of Arms, devices, or badges in braces have been returned or pended. Commentary, rulings, etc. by Rouge Scarpe are placed in CAP PRINT. Thanks to Knute, Aryanhwy, Mikhail and AElfreda (A&M), Master Talan, Dugan and Maistri Rory (D&R), Master Gunnvor, and Master John ap Wynne for this month’s commentary.

 


 

1) Agnes Van Kouwenhoven -- Device Resubmission—{Argent, on a chevron gules, a doe lodged overall proper and in base a strawberry plant fructed proper.}
(Wyoming, MI)
(name reg'd Jun '01)

The forms say this is a new submission but in fact this is a resubmission. The last one was: Per pale azure and vert, on a cross formy throughout argent, a rose gules, leaved vert returned Feb '01 by Rouge Scarpe was returned for a redraw.

The blazon is as it appears on the form. I can barely read it. --Esct.

Device Commentary

Talan – The doe isn’t on the chevron. This is ‘Argent, a chevron gules surmounted by a doe lodged proper and in base a strawberry plant fructed proper’. (The doe isn’t really overall; blazoning it last would be a bit misleading.) With so much of the doe on the chevron, the contrast leaves a bit to be desired.

Knut – The doe is barely overall. Most of it lies on the extremely low contract gules chevron. An attireless head isn’t enough to identify a deer. It needs to be redreawn.

DEVICE RETURNED FOR REDRAW

2) {┴ine the Dream Seeker (F) -- New Name and Device --Vert, a Celtic cross Or and on a chief embattled Or, three trefoils vert}
(Three Towers)

Client will *not* accept major changes and cares for meaning: “Celtic for ┴ine the Dream Seeker” and for authentic Irish/Scottish, or the British Isles Area

BLAZON CHANGE – Vert, a Celtic cross and on a chief embattled Or three trefoils vert.

[┴ine] -- “Book of Irish Names,” Ronan-Coghlan, p 10

  • ? ? “Index of Names in Irish Annals: ┴ine” by Mari Elspeth nic Bryan (Kathleen M. O'Brien) http://www.s-gabriel.org/names/mari/AnnalsIndex/Feminine/Aine.shtml c1200-c1700
  • [The Dream Seeker] -- “Heroes of the Dawn -- Celtic Myth,” by Fergus Fleming, according to the copies submitted:

  • ? ? “The Dream of Macsen is based on the true story of Magnus Maximus, a fourth-century AD Roman general stationed in Britian who made a failed bid to become Roman emporer. . . .’The Dream of Macsen’ . . . The story storys in Rome, where Macsen dreams that he has met the most Beautiful woman in the world.”

    According to the paperwork: “Dreams were a prevalent part of Celtic Society. Seeking out dreams or searching for dreams is something that was done then as today. It is like following your dream.

    [Dream Seeker] is a description of ┴ine and what she does. After all, being in the Society and doing certain things is called ‘in service of the Dream’, so we are all Dream Seekers.” Included are examples of important Celtic Dreams Heroes of the Dawn.”

  • Name Commentary

    Talan - > Client will *not* accept major changes and cares for meaning: “Celtic for ┴ine the Dream Seeker” and for authentic Irish/Scottish, or the British Isles Area

    The client is out of luck; <the Dream Seeker> is not authentic in English or (after translation) in Irish.

    >[┴ine] -- “Book of Irish Names,” Ronan-Coghlan, p 10

  • ? ? “Index of Names in Irish Annals: ┴ine” by Mari Elspeth nic Bryan (Kathleen M. O'Brien) http://www.s-gabriel.org/names/mari/AnnalsIndex/Feminine/Aine.shtml c1200-c1700
  • Someone misread the entry. The actual range of dates of the annals containing the name is from 1169 to 1468.

    >[The Dream Seeker] -- “Heroes of the Dawn -- Celtic Myth,” by Fergus Fleming, according to the copies submitted:

  • ? ? “The Dream of Macsen is based on the true story of Magnus Maximus, a fourth-century AD Roman general stationed in Britian who made a failed bid to become Roman emporer. . . .’The Dream of Macsen’ . . . The story storys in Rome, where Macsen dreams that he has met the most Beautiful woman in the world.”
  • The ‘Dream of Macsen’ is Welsh, not Irish. The existence of a tale called (in modern Welsh) ‘Breuddwry Macsen’ (‘Macsen’s Dream’) is irrelevant to the question of whether something meaning ‘the Dream Seeker’ is an authentic byname in any language.

    > According to the paperwork: “Dreams were a prevalent part of Celtic Society. Seeking out dreams or searching for dreams is something that was done then as today. It is like following your dream.

    This conflates two meanings of ‘dream’, the activity that takes place during sleep and the greatly desired outcome.

    John – Aine: see Todd (pp. 13-14); O’Corrain/Maguire (pp. 1-20); Norman (p. 219, p. 227) says it was a popular name in Ireland from the Dark Ages – 1536.

    Dream-Seeker: this would be a constructed name, and the client apparently would like it in Irish or Gaelic; so I’ve come up with at least two variations that might prove acceptable. <Sa toir ar lorg bhriongloid> means <the searcher for dreams>; see MacMathuna/O’Corrain (p. 100 & p. 275); could also mean <one in search of a dream>. Another try: <bhrionglaideach> (dreaming) – see Dwelly (p. 124); so, how about something like <Tha Aine bhrionglaideach> (Aine is dreaming or Ann the dreamer) <Aine an bhrionglaideach> (Aine who dreams). This of course doesn’t exhaust all possibilities, but it may be a start.

    Device Commentary

    Knut & Talan – blazon change to ‘Vert, a Celtic cross and on a chief embattled Or three trefoils vert.’ Clear of conflict.

    NAME RETURNED FOR LACK OF DOCUMENTATION
    DEVICE RETURNED WITH NAME

    3) Bradwen ap Cadog (M) -- New Name and Device --Per bend sinister azure and sable, a bend sinister between a unicorn rampant coutourny argent and a pithon erect wings displayed Or
    (Three Towers)

    BLAZON CHANGE – Per bend sinister vert and gules, a bend sinister between a unicorn rampant contourny argent and a pithon erect wings displayed Or.

    This is a Pennsic submission. The client *will not* accept major changes and wants a welsh/King Arthur-ish style name.

     

    [Bradwen] -- "Welsh Names for Children," by Heini Gruffud, according to the paperwork:

  • ? ? ". . . this name is 'mentioned in Culhwch ac Olwen." The submitter believes the name is used for a human character (the son of a king) in this period work of fiction."
  • [ap Cadog] -- from Tangwystyl's "Welsh Miscellany," p. 30 meaning 'son of Cadog'

    Name Commentary

    John – Bradwen: name featured in Arthurian legends and the Mabinogion. See Conway (p. 98); Ford (p. 126, 127); Gantz (p. 141).

    Cadog: See Conway (p. 99 under ‘Cadoc’) Norman (p. 179) lists this as prevalent name in Wales 700-1200 AD; Todd (p. 90 under ‘Caddock’)

    Talan>wants a welsh/King Arthur-ish style name.

    Judging by the name and the submitted documentation, it’s probably safest to interpret this as a request for a Welsh name.

    >[Bradwen] -- "Welsh Names for Children," by Heini Gruffud, according to the paperwork:

  • ? ? ". . . this name is 'mentioned in Culhwch ac Olwen." The submitter believes the name is used for a human character (the son of a king) in this period work of fiction."
  • The real question is whether it was also used by real human people: this is not always the case with names of human characters, and this name is a bit odd: Welsh names in <-wen> are normally feminine. I took a look at some of the other names listed in the passage that contains this one, both at http://www.missgien.net/arthurian/mabinogion/culhwch4.html and at http://www.english.ubc.ca/~sechard/344welsh.htm , comparing some of them with the names recorded in th'e genealogies set out in P.C. Bartrum, Early Welsh Genealogical Tracts (Cardiff: Univ. of Wales Press, 1966). While some of the names occur more than once in these early genealogies, a majority of the ones that I checked fail to appear at all. Some are so pat as to beg for independent confirmation: the name <Maelwys> is a compound meaning ‘noble pig’, and the bearer is the son of Baeddan, whose name is a diminutive of <baedd> ‘a boar’. In short, the presence of the name in the list of knights in ‘Culhwch ac Olwen’ doesn’t in itself appear to mean much at all.

    Bartrum has no <Brad-> names at all, and all the Welsh names in <-wen> that I’ve encountered have been feminine. (The corresponding masculine element is <-wyn>.) It’s certainly conceivable that <Bradwen> is a rare and somewhat unusual early masculine name that was actually in everyday use, but I’ve no evidence that it was. I frankly doubt that anyone but Tangwystyl verch Morgant Glasvryn is in a position to say whether the name is plausible; if she were still commenting in the CoA, it would be reasonable to send this up with a request for more expert advice.

    Device Commentary

    Knute – Clear

    THE BLAZON IS PER BEND SINISTER AZURE AND SABLE BUT IT IS DRAWN AS VERT AND GULES. BLAZON WILL BE CHANGED TO MATCH WHAT IS DRAWN

    NAME AND DEVICE PASSED TO LAUREL.

    4) Catteden, Canton of, -- Resubmission Name and Device -- Argent, a demi-cat sable issuant from a base azure, in dexter chief a laurel wreath vert
    (Findlay, OH)

    They've included petitions of support for both name and device. They will allow for major changes

    [Catteden] -- Ekwell, Eilert, "The Oxford Dictionary of English Placenames," pp 90-91:

    "s.n. Catt: 'cat' in the sense of 'wild cat' is probably the first el. of a many pl. ns. But in all probability it was also used as a byname and pers. n. In pl. ns. where the second el. is a word such leah, slaed, or the like, the meaning 'wild cat' is as a rule to be assumed."

  • ? ? [Cathale] c. 1200 s.n [Cattal]
    [Cattiwad] c. 1247 s.n. [Cattawade] OE: cattgewaed 'cats ford.'
    [Catteshale] c. 1187, [Catteshull] c. 1242 s.n. Cattishall
    [Catteden] c. 1229 s.n. [Catton] meaning 'wild-cat valley'
  • According to the paperwork from Teceangl: "if Cattedon isn't someplace important enough to protect . . . you could use either or create another compound meaning "wild cat valley". And it's documentable and a known style of English placenames."

    The name was returned by Laurel, Aug. '01 for " . . . This group has "proto-incipient" status. As the Middle's webpage on the "Process of Becoming a Full Status Group" (http://www.midrealm.org/seneschallorum/fullstatgroup.doc) specifically states that for such groups, "at this point you have no official standing in the SCA", we are not able to register this group's submission at this time."

    Device returned by R.S for "The device is being returned because the required laurel wreath on branch arms cannot be maintained, according to Laurel precedent of 4/92: "[A beast rampant maintaining in its dexter forepaw a laurel wreath] "A number of commenters expressed concern that the laurel wreath did not constitute 'a significant element of the design', as required by the Administrative Handbook, I.D.2. Given that we do not normally grant any difference for maintained charges, this opinion has weight." [The device was returned for this reason] (LoAR 4/92 p.19). Additionally, the base is too high and should be redrawn lower."

    (Esct Note: This submission has been pended for months. When I get one problem solved, another came up. And every time I got ready to return the submission, I would get a reply from someone saying what was needed was in the mail. Finally, everything is in order, I hope. I did redo the Branch Name form as they used a personal name form.)

    Name Commentary

    Talan - >[Catteden] -- Ekwell, Eilert, "The Oxford Dictionary of English Placenames," pp 90-91:

    >[Catteden] c. 1229 s.n. [Catton] meaning 'wild-cat valley'

    Ekwall actually has two entries for <Catton>; it has to be specified that the desired entry is the one for Catton in Northumberland. More accurately, the name is Old English <catta dene> ‘wildcats’ valley’: <catta> is the genitive plural of OE <catta> ‘wildcat’ (Victor Watts, The Cambridge Dictionary of English Place-Names, CUP, 2004, s.n. <Catton> (Northum)). The name is obviously just fine, assuming that it isn’t protected

    NAME AND DEVICE PASSED TO LAUREL

    5) Demetrios of Antioch (M) -- New Name and Device -- Per pale argent and gules, a pair of wings displayed inverted couped at body counterchanged
    (Taylor, MI)

    Client will accept major changes and wants late Greek. Client also submits he has an AoA as 'Robert of Scarlet Company' and has no name registered.

    BLAZON CHANGED TO: Per pale argent and gules, in chief a wing inverted and a sinister wing inverted counterchanged.

    [Demetrios] -- "Early 14th C. Byzantine Names of Macedonia," by Maridonna Benvenuti, (http://www.maridonna.com/onomastics/macedonia.htm) lists [Demetrios], son-in-law of Panagiotes

  • ? ? St. Demetrios Creek Orthodix Church (http://www.st-demetrios.org/stdemetrios.htm) "Saint Demetiros was born in Thesaloniki, Greece in 270 AD."

    "Behind the Name: Ancient Greek Names" (http://www.behindthename.com/nmc/gre-anci.html) cites Demetrios "Original Greek form of Demetrius" (no dates given)

  • [Antioch] - the client didn't submit any documentation for Antioch but I did a quick search online and found this site: "Wikipedia: The Free Encyclopedia," (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antioch): ". . . The city remained in Crusader hands for the better part of the 12th and 13th centuries, until it was captured by Mamluk Sultan Baibars in 1268. Baibars destruction of the city was so great that it was never a major city again, with much of its former role falling to the port city of Alexandretta (Iskenderun). . . ."

    I'm sure someone has a better reference.

    Name Commentary

    Talan - >[Demetrios] -- "Early 14th C. Byzantine Names of Macedonia," by Maridonna Benvenuti, (http://www.maridonna.com/onomastics/macedonia.htm) lists [Demetrios], son-in-law of Panagiotes

    The Greek is actually <Dŕmŕ/trios>, where <ŕ> stands for the Greek letter eta, and the slash stands for an acute accent over the previous letter. The city is <Antiˇkneia> in Greek; the ethnic noun is <Antiokhe˙s>. (For the first see http://www.ec-patr.gr/gr/visits/25.htm ; for the second, http://ancientgr.com/Unknown_Hellenic_History/EPISTHMONES.htm , which includes a <Gorg˘/nios ho Antiokhe˙s> ‘the Antiochan’ in a list of early Greek builders/engineers.) It appears from the discussion in Bardas Xiphias, ‘Personal Names of the Aristocracy in the Roman Empire During the Later Byzantine Era’ at http://www.sca.org/heraldy/laural/names/byzantine/introduction.html that <Dŕmŕ/trios ho Antiokhe˙s> is at least a possible Greek form of the name.

    Device Commentary

    D&R – The feathers should be more noticeable. The wings are not really a pair ‘couped’, they are two separate wings. Also as drawn they are well above the mid-point of the escutcheon. Blazon suggestions: Per pale argent and gules, in chief a wing inverted and a sinister wing inverted counterchanged.

    Knute – blazon suggestion: Per pale argent and gules, in chief a pair of wings displayed inverted couped at body counterchanged.

    NAME CHANGED TO <Dŕmŕ/trios ho Antiokhe˙s> AND PASSED TO LAUREL. DEVICE PASSED TO LAUREL.

    6) {Dragon's Ford, Canton of -- New Name and Device -- Argent, a pale wavy azure surmounted by a dragon passant sinister gules, on a chief vert, a laurel wreath Or}
    (Bellaire, OH)

    A petition of support for both name and device. Client *will not* accept major changes

    [Dragon] -- the symbol of the Middle Kingdom

  • ? ? "Gazetteer of British Place Names," by Association of British Counties (http://abcounties.co.uk/cgi-bin/d.pllists [Dragonby], Lincolnshire County; [Dragons Green], Sussex County and [Dragon's Hill], Dorset County. (No dates given.)

    http://www.cheif.net/onthuhlist/dinosaur_sightings.htm "After the Flood -- The Early post-Flood history of Europe, 1995, p. 134: "Serpent in Dragon's Green," cites "As late as August, 1614, . . . near a village that was known as Dragon's Green...."

    [Dragon] -- Reaney & Wilson, "Dictionary of English Surnames," p 141: s.n. Dragon: [Dragon] c. 1374

  • [Ford] - Crossing

  • ? ? "A Collection of 613 English Borough Names for Use in Locative Bynames," by Lord Frederic Badger (http://www.s-gabriel.org/names/badger/placenames.html#a) lists [North Ford], 1326.
  • According to the submitted paperwork: "Name chosen because we are located on a river between the Middle Kingdom and Ă thelmearc."

    Name Commentary

    Talan - >[Dragon] -- the symbol of the Middle Kingdom

  • ? ? "Gazetteer of British Place Names," by Association of British Counties (http://abcounties.co.uk/cgi-bin/d.pllists [Dragonby], Lincolnshire County; [Dragons Green], Sussex County and [Dragon's Hill], Dorset County. (No dates given.)
  • These dates do not appear to be old. Indeed, at http://www.themodernantiquarian.com/site/2136 we learn that ‘[t]he village name Dragonby is only fairly recent, it was changed by local land owners, the Elwes family, from Conesby Cliff in honor of the dragon!’.

    Old English <draca> ‘dragon’, genitive singular <dracan>, gave rise to such modern place-names as <Drakedale>, <Drakehill>, <Drakeholes>, <Drakelow>, <Drakenage>, <Drake North>, and <Drake Pits>, from Old English names meaning ‘(the) dragon’s valley, hill, hollow(s), mound, edge, treasure, and deep hole or pit’, respectively (A.H. Smith, English Pace-Name Elements, CUP 1956, s.v. <draca>). (<Drake North> is the result of improper division of <dracan hord> ‘dragon’s hoard’ at some point in the name’s history.) All of these associated the dragon either with a depression, an eminence, or a treasure, in keeping with the traditions about dragons.

    Smith has no examples of Old English <draca> giving rise to modern <Dragon>, and he has no entry for Old French <dragon> as an English place-name element.

    > http://www.cheif.net/onthuhlist/dinosaur_sightings.htm "After the Flood -- The Early post-Flood history of Europe, 1995, p. 134: "Serpent in Dragon's Green," cites "As late as August, 1614, . . . near a village that was known as Dragon's Green...."

    Well, no: <Dragon’s Green> is the modern form of the name, since the apostrophe to mark the genitive didn’t come into use at all until the 17th century and didn’t become regular until about 1700 (Dennis Freeborn, From Old English to Standard English, 2nd edn., Univ. of Ottawa Press, 1998, p. 316; Manfred G÷rlach, Introduction to Early Modern English, CUP 1991, p. 58f). At that date the first element would have been written <Dragons> (or possibly even still <Dragones>), as in <Dragons teeth> 1644, cites from Milton’s ‘Areopagitica’ in the OED v.s. <dragon>.

    >[Dragon] -- Reaney & Wilson, "Dictionary of English Surnames," p 141: s.n. Dragon: [Dragon] c. 1374

    This isn’t particularly relevant unless there is a case for identifying fords by people’s surnames, and I’m aware of no such case.

    >[Ford] - Crossing

    The gloss is inaccurate, as many crossings are not fords. A ford is a shallow place in a stream or river at which a crossing can be made without the help of a boat or bridge.

    >? ? "A Collection of 613 English Borough Names for Use in Locative Bynames," by Lord Frederic Badger (http://www.s-gabriel.org/names/badger/placenames.html#a) lists [North Ford], 1326.

    The introduction this page has a very clear disclaimer noting that the spellings are modern. <Northforde> would be considerable more typical of 1326, and many other spellings are possible at that date; <North Ford> is rather unlikely until later.

    Smith s.v.<ford> details the types of first elements with which this term most often appears:

  • *descriptive adjectives, usually indicating the nature or position of the ford, like <dŕop> ‘deep’, <sticce> ‘sticky’, <derne> ‘hidden’, and <brad> ‘broad, i.e., having a wide track’;
    *nouns describing the material of the track in the ford, like <stÔn> ‘stone’ and <slim> ‘slime’;
    * nouns referring to some other feature of the ford, like <sumor> ‘summer’ for a ford usable only in the summer;
    *words signifying ‘track’, ‘road’, and the like;
    *words signifying the capacity of the ford, like <f˘§r> ‘a cartload’ and <sc˘h> ‘a shoe’ (for a shallow ford);
    *words indicating the habitual use of a particular ford, like <bere> ‘barley’ for a ford across which barley was regularly transported;
    *names of domestic animals (<g˘s> ‘goose’, <cű> ‘cow’, <oxa> ‘ox’, <swţn> ‘swine’, etc.), either those habitually using or frequenting the ford, or because the ford was suitable for use by that animal;
    *names of trees and plants marking the site of the ford;
    *words denoting topographical features by which the site of the ford was marked;
    *the name of the river crossed or the place to which the ford gave access;
    *words denoting groups of people who habitually used the ford, like <mŠgden> ‘maiden’, <■egn> ‘thane’, and <hunta> ‘hunter’; and
    *Old English personal names.
  • <Dragon’s> matches none of these types.

    To sum up, the apostrophe is impossible in period place-names; at best it could be <Dragons Ford>. But <dragon> is a rare and late element in English place-naming. Smith doesn’t mention it at all. Of the tree known examples, one is modern, one probably existed by 1600 but need not be much older, and the last may not go back even to 1600. This makes even <Dragons Ford> unlikely just on the basis of its form, and there are also semantic problems. For starters, the available older English place-names referring to dragons all have second elements corresponding to popular notions about dragons; <ford> does not fit this model. Moreover, <Dragon(‘s)> fits none of the common categories of <ford> modifiers. The name simply isn’t a plausible period place-name, even in the form <Dragons Ford>.

    They could reduce the implausibility somewhat by using Old English <draca> instead of Old French <dragon>, since the former is moderately well attested in period place-names. The original Old English would have been <dracan ford> ‘dragon’s ford’, which by the 14th century is likely to have lost the <n> and appear as <Drakeforde> or the like. My own feeling is that this is still semantically too implausible to be acceptable, but it might be plausible enough to justify sending it up to let the CoA chew on it. However, it clearly entails a major change from the submitted name, which should therefore be returned.

    Ary – This conflicts with Draksfjord, Canton of (reg. 8/2001 via Lochac). There is insignificant difference in spelling and pronunciation.

    Device Commentary

    Talan – The dragon is either passant contourny or passant to sinister, and the last comma is incorrect: ‘Argent, a pale wavy azure surmounted by a dragon passant contourny gules and on a chief vert a laurel wreath or

    A&M – This device has a complexity count of 9. We were unable to find any precedent which would say whether or not RfS X.3 applied to complexity or not. If it did, this would bring the complexity down to 8. We did not find reference to complexity of group arms in the Precedents of Alisoun MacCoul of Elphane, but they all appeared to be under the old rules.

    X.3. Required Charges Transparent.- Two pieces of official Society armory that share required charges may consider their Difference of Primary Charges as if the required charges were not there. This is to avoid penalizing the slight increase in complexity caused when official armory includes required charges like the laurel wreath or crown. As an example, Gules, a hammer within a laurel wreath and on a chief Or three fleurs-de-lys gules would not conflict with Gules, a mullet within a laurel wreath and on a chief Or three fleurs-de-lys gules. Required charges always count normally for difference themselves; this rule only ignores the complexity they add to a design. This provision may not be applied when comparing official Society armory with any other armory.

    Knute – This has a complexity of nine, which exceeds the guideline in RfS VIII.1. Return for violating RfS VIII.1

    D&R – Blazon suggestion: Argent, a pale wavy azure overall a dragon passant sinister gules, on a chief vert a laurel wreath Or.

    NAME RETURNED. CLIENT WILL BE ADVISED OF TALAN’S COMMENTS. DEVICE RETURNED WITH NAME.

    7) Drina Petulengro (F) -- New Name
    (Three Towers)

    Client will *not* accept major changes and cares for 1500-1600 Romany-Gypsy

    [Petulengro] -- http://www.20000-names.com/gypsy_names.htm -- "... these names are expressed in the English Gypsy dialect by 'Vardomescro' and 'Petulengro'. . . . Petulengro, the other trade name, is borne by the Gypsies who are known to the public by English appellation of Smith...." The articles also states that "petali" or "petata" signifies in Gyspy 'a shoe shoe' and 'engro' is a Greek affix so that 'Petulengro' can be translate as 'horseshoe-maker.'

  • ? ? From "Romano Lavo-Lil Word-book of the Romany," by George Barrow
  • [Drina] -- http://www.miniclan.org/pathrell/romany.html: "Gypsy Names, Words, and Some Customs" lists Drina no date given.

  • ? ? According to the paperwork: "Email confirmation from author of the website of the info cam from - Bury me Standing. Also, according to MK-heralds list Romany names can pretty much be anything because they had public names and private Rom. names. Rom names do not have very much documentation except for some last names."
  • Name Commentary

    Talan - > ? ? According to the paperwork: "Email confirmation from author of the website of the info cam from - Bury me Standing. Also, according to MK-heralds list Romany names can pretty much be anything because they had public names and private Rom. names. Rom names do not have very much documentation except for some last names."

    ‘We don’t know much about them’ is not at all the same as ‘They can pretty much be anything’. From http://www.s-gabriel.org/names/arval/romany/.

    We have found very little information about period Romany names. What we’ve discovered boils down to this: The Romany used at least two names each – a private name in their own languages that was not used outside their community, and a public name in the language of the country where they lived. We have found no evidence at all on Romany private names. We have found little evidence about their public names, which seem to be typical of the country where they are found. Therefore the best general advice we can give you is that in public a Romany man or woman would have used a normal name for the time and place where he or she lived [1].

    [1] Barbara Jean Kuehl, newsgroup posting in Stefan’s Florilegium: Gypsy Culture. She cites Jean-Paul Clebert, The Gypsies (Harmondsworth: Penguin, 1967). http://www.pbm.com/~lindahl/rialto/gypsies-msg.html.

    There are a few names that may actually be Romany in origin. <Papusza> is a Polish spelling, but there seems to be considerable agreement in on-line resources that it represents a genuine Romany word meaning either ‘baby’ or ‘doll’. <Tshaya> appears to be derived from <tschei> ‘girl, daughter’, <šaj> ‘girl’, or <chay> ‘girl’ in various Romany dialects (where I’ve substituted <ch> for c-hackek). http://romani.uni-graz.at.romani/ling/romani-at.en.shtml, http://www.romani.uni-graz.at/romani.ling/lov.en.shtml, http://www.romani.uni-graz.at/romani/download/files.djo46.pfd, <Luludja> is ‘flower’ in at least one Bulgarian romany dialect, http://www.romani/uni-graz.at.romani/download/files/gls51-kyuchukov.pdf. Some of the others may be as well.

    But many of these names, quite possibly most, are ordinary names from one or another of the cultures in which the Rom have settled at different times. In some cases, this is very obvious: <Mini>, <Liza>, <Carolina>, <Valentina>, <Liliana>, <Yolonda>, <Emilia>, <Elena>, <Antoinette>, <Nadja>, <Lina>, and perhaps <Mirella> and <Lyuba> (and its diminutive <Lyubitshka>) ought to be familiar to most people.

    <Drina> is derived from a river-name and is used as a feminine personal name in both Serbian/Croatian and Bulgarian, according to Milan Bosanac, Prosvjetin Imenoslov (Zagreb: Provjeta, 1984) s.n. <Drina>, and Joradn Zaimov, Bulgarski Imennik (Sofia: Izdatelstvo na Bulgarskata Akademija na Naukite , 1994). Quite possibly it, like other short names, has other sources as well. Unfortunately, there is nothing here to suggest that the name is period.

    NAME PASSED TO LAUREL TO MAKE FINAL DECISION. CLIENT WILL BE NOTIFIED OF POSSIBLE REASONS FOR RETURN.

    8) D˙nchadh Mac Gabhann -- New Device -- Per bend vert and Or, a sheaf of arrows Or and a single-horned anvil sable.
    (Chillicothe, IL)
    (name reg'd Oct '01)

    DEVICE PASSED TO LAUREL

    9) Elayne Thorne -- New Device – {Vert, semy of thistles argent, a bordure raguly Or}
    (Sparland, IL)
    (name reg'd Jan '97)

    She used the wrong escutcheon form. I'm not sure with all the current discussion to send it on or not. So here it is. --Esct.

    Device Commentary

    Knut – the raguly is too small and needs to be redrawn. It would be better if there were fewer and larger thistles, return for violating RfS VII.7.a

    A&M – due to their small size and internal detailing, the thistles look fairly sable, at least in the minis. Having fewer and larger thistles (with perhaps some of the internal detailing removed) would help in their identification. In addition, the vert field appears to be rather non-heraldic yellow-green. If the device is returned for redrawing, the submitter should probably be advised to use the standard Midrealm heraldic submission form.

    DEVICE RETURNED FOR REDRAW. CLIENT WILL BE ADVISED TO USE THE ESCUTCHEON SHAPE ON THE MIDEALM HERALDIC FORMS.

    10) Eleanor Ravenild --Device Resubmission – {Per bend sable and gules, a unicorn’s head couped Or.}
    (Hammond, IN)
    (Name sent to Laurel May ‘04)

    BLAZON CHANGE – Per bend gules and sable, a unicorns head couped Or.

    Device was returned for conflict with Saerlaith nic Uilliam O'Ceallaigh (reg. 06/90 via Calontir), "Per bend paly argent and azure and azure, in dexter base a unicorn's head couped argent," and for violation of AH V.B.2.e.: The blazon and drawings do not match.

    Device Commentary

    Knut – Astrid Tower – May 1986 via the West – Per chevron Or and purpure, in base a unicorn’s head erased Or.

    Single CD for the field, no CD for the forced placement.

    Return for conflict.

    DEVICE RETURNED FOR CONFLICT – THOUGH CLIENT HAS REMOVED THE CORONET, SHE HAS NOT CORRECTED THE CONFLICT.

    11) Elizabethe Alles (F) -- New Name
    (Unicorn)

    Client will *not* accept major changes and cares for 15th-16th century English

    According to the submitted paperwork:

  • ? ? [Elizabethe] can be dated to 1568 in Suffolk, England, where there was a woman named 'Elizabethe Aves.' Baron Talan Gwynek's "Feminine Given Names" in "A Dictionary of English Surnames," http://www.sca.org/heraldry/laurel/reaneyintro.html
  • [Alles] -- is dated to 1571 in London when a woman named 'Agnes Alles' and a man named 'George Haynes' received a marriage license. This is listed under the entry for 'Allis, Alliss' in Charles Bardsley's "A Dictionary of English and Welsh Surnames," p. 49

    NAME PASSED TO LAUREL

    12) Hrˇbjartr Melrakki (M) -- New Name and Device -- Sable, two gores argent, in chief a fox's mask argent.
    (Mynydd Seren)

    Client *will not* accept major changes.

    BLAZON CHANGE: Sable, two gores, in chief, a fox’s mask argent.

    According to the paperwork:

    [Hrˇbjartr] --đorgeirsson, Haukur "Nafnasafri: Icelandic and Heathen Names"

  • ? ? (http://www.irminsul.org/arc/012ht.html)
    "Hrˇbjartr (Hrˇbjarts) m - Hrˇ­- + Bjartr" meaning: fame bright
  • [Melrakki] -- Zoega,Geir T. "A Concise Dictionary of Old Iscelandic," chapter 128: "Em ekok ■ ess ˇ f˙ ss at lß ta sv{Š}la Mikinni; melrakki igreni. meaning: Arctic fox, white fox.

    Name Commentary


    Gunnvor – Smith, Kevin P. “Landnßm: the settlement of Iceland in Archaeological and Historical Perspective.” World Archaeology 26:3 Colonization of Islands. Routedge. 1995. p. 323

    “The only land mammal known to have occupied the pre-settlement landscape was the artic fox (Alopex lagopus), which reached Iceland across the artic ice pack that embraces the northern and eastern coasts in severe winters. Foxes may have survived by raiding the nests of migratory birds or scavenging the carcasses of marine mammals.”

    This suggests to me that the Old Norse word <melrakki> is probably something that developed fairly soon during the settlement period, c. 870-930, since the animal would have been notable as the only local land animal.

    Talan - >[Hrˇbjartr] --đorgeirsson, Haukur "Nafnasafri: Icelandic and Heathen Names"

    The author’s surname is <Ůorgeirsson> with <Ů> (thorn), not <đ> (edh); the title of the page is <Nafnasafni§> ‘The Name Collection’.

  • >? ? (http://www.irminsul.org/arc/012ht.html)
    "Hrˇbjartr (Hrˇbjarts) m - Hrˇ­- + Bjartr" meaning: fame bright
  • The derivation is correct, but the form given is very atypical, and I have no evidence that it’s actually attested. E.H. Lind, Norsk-Islńndska Dopnamn ock Fingerade Namn frňn Medeltiden, Uppsala, 1905-1915, gives the normalized form as <Hrˇ§biarta> (under the headword). (The alternative normalization that distinguishes consonantal from vocalic, used for instance by Geirr Bassi, would make it <Hrˇ§bjartr>.) Lind gives the very similar <Hrodbiartr> from Flateyjarbˇk, which was written ca. 1390 (E.V. Gordon, Introduction to Old Norse, 2nd rev. edn., OUP, 1957, p. Ixvii), and an instance of the genitive (possessive) <Hrodbiartz> from an Icelandic document of 1462; Norwegian forms mostly lose the initial <H> (e.g., <Rodbiarter> 1381). Lind does not appear to have any citations that keep the initial <H> but lose the <§> completely, though it can appear as <d>, <Ů>, or even <t>.

    The name is a borrowing of Continental German <Hrodebert>, perhaps partly by way of England after the Conquest. Most medieval bearers of the name were of foreign (non-Norwegian, non-Icelandic) origin; the earliest reasonably certain native Norwegian example is from 1315 (in the form <Roberter>), and there is a possible Icelandic example from the first half of the 13th century. If he intends a Viking Age persona, this is a poor choice, though not returnably bad.

    >[Melrakki] -- Zoega,Geir T. "A Concise Dictionary of Old Iscelandic," chapter 128: "Em ekok ■ ess ˇ f˙ ss at lß ta sv{Š}la Mikinni; melrakki igreni. meaning: Arctic fox, white fox.

    This citation is mangled. First, ZoŰga is a dictionary: it doesn’t have chapters. The entry for <melrakki> says that the word is a masculine noun, gives the gloss ‘artic fox, white fox’, and adds the illustrative phrase <brenna inni sem melrakki Ý greni> ‘to burn (someone) to death in his house like an artic fox in his lair’. I’ve no idea whence he got the preceding quotation, which has been badly mangled: as near as I can tell, it should be <Em ek ok Ůess ˇf˙ss at lßta svŠla mik inni sem melrakka Ý grenÝ> ‘And so I am unwilling to let myself be suffocated in my house like an artic fox in its lair’, a line spoken by Skarphe§inn in Njßla saga, Ch. 128. Evidently the artic fox was hunted by smoking it out of its den.

    (As an aside, <melrakki> is actually a compound of <melr> ‘bent-grass; sandy hill grown with bent-grass; sandbank, gravel bank’ and <rakki> ‘dog’, from animal’s habit of burrowing in such sandbanks.)

    The term is attested at least twice as a byname: E.H. Lind, Norsk-Islńndska Personbinamn, Uppsala, 1920-21, s.v. <Melrakki> notes <Ůor§r melrakki> ca. 1000 and <Ůorleifr melrakki> in the 900s. These are a bit early for the forename on any reading of the evidence, but an Icelandic <Hrˇ§bjarta melrakki> isn’t out of the question ca. 1200. The evidence does seem to require inserting the missing <§> in the forname, however.

    Device Commentary

    Knute & D&R – Blazon suggestion – Sable, two gores, in chief a fox’s mask argent.

    NAME AND DEVICE PASSED TO LAUREL

    13) Jargeirr bÝldr (M) -- New Name and Device -- Per pale sable and argent, a double billed axe counterchanged.
    (Three Towers)

    Client will accept major changes and wants a byname meaning 'ax'. This is a Pennsic submission.

    BLAZON CHANGE – Per pale sable and argent, a double bitted axe counterchanged.

    [Jargeirr] from "Old Norse Men's Names, " http://www.vikinganswerlady.com" (You can get to it through Daily Life, then "Old Norse Names) The Viking Answer Lady cites

    The first element in this name is formed from OW.Norse jara "battle." .... Runic examples include the nominative form iar-eiR and the accusative form iarkiR. ... The second element -geirr is identical with Old Icelandic geirr, "spear".

    [bÝldr] a byname meaning "ax, a-blade," from Geirr-bassi Haraldsson, "The Old Norse Name," p 20, col. 1

    Name Commentary

    Talan – There is some doubt as to whether <bÝldr> is the best choice here. The only meaning offered in ZoŰga’s Old Icelandic Dictionary is ‘an instrument for letting blood, a lancet’, and de Vries’s Altnordisches Etymologisches W÷rterbuch offers only the synonymous (German) gloss ‘aderlassmesser’. Only Cleasby, Vigfusson, and Craigie’s Icelandic-English Dictionary notes the ‘axe’ sense, which is apparently found only in a rhymed glossary of synonyms that is part of Snorra Edda. Finally, E.H. Lind, Norsk-Islńndska Personbinamn frňn Medeltiden, s.v. <BÝldr>, notes that it’s even possible that the two half-brothers who bore the byname and are mentioned in Landnßmabˇk as Icelandic settlers took their byname from some place with a name whose first element was <Bildz->; if this is the case, the byname doesn’t refer to any kind of implement.

    An attested byname that undoubtedly refers to a kind of axe is <bol°x> ‘a wood axe’, for which E.H. Lind, Norsk-Islńndska Personbinamn frňn Medeltiden (Uppsala: Almqvist & Wiksells, 1920-1921), s.v. <bol°x>, cites <Osbern bulax Sigur­ar s. iarls>, who died in 1054. <Jargeirr bol°x> would meet his requirements.

    Gunnvor – The correct citation for the webpage in question, with a direct URL, is: Gunno,r silfraha/rr. ”Old Norse Men’s Names and Their Meanings” (www.thevikinganswerlady.2004). http://www.vikinganswerlady.com/onmensnames.htm.

    Lena Peteson. Nordiskt funnamnslexikon. (www.spra*k- och folkminnes-institute). http://www.sofi.se/SOFIU/runlex/ s.n. <largŠiRR>

    Peterson says: <larg{ae}iRR> mn. F.I. en form av (fvn.) <jara> f. ‘strid’, e.l. --> <-g{ae}iRR>. Norm. <iar-eiR> Sm147 Ack. <iarkiR> U186, U188 Bela”ggen I U 186, U188 avser samma person.

    Which is: <larg{ae}iRR> (masculine name). First element is formed form OW. Norse <jara> f. “battle”, second element see <-g{ae}iRR>. Nominative: <iar-eiR> Sm147. Accustive: <iarkiR> U186, U188. Examples in U186, U188 refer to the same person.

    Checking in: Samnordisk runtextdatabas (rundata) http://home6.swipnet.se/~w~61277/rundata/1.htm Signa Sm147 U186, U188 Rundata tells us that all three runic inscriptions are from Viking Age Sweden.

    The form <Jargeirr> is more the more common American normalization of the name and thus reflects a West Scandinavian type spelling.

    The byname <bi/ldr> is correctly cited from Geirr Bassi p. 20. The noun <bi/ldr> is used for ‘axe’, but also for ‘cheeks’, probably in reference to the flat ‘cheeks’ or sides of the axe-blade. See: Cleasby, Richard and Gudbrandr Vigfusson. An Icelandic-English Dictionary. 2nd ed. Oxford: Claredon. 1957. p. 64 s.v. <bi/ldr>.

    Device Commentary

    Gunnvor – the double-bitted axe is not something you’d actually find a Viking using, but it’s fine for SCA registration. As is, the blazon should be ‘double-bitted’ instead of ‘double-billed’.

    Knut – Blazon change to ‘per pale sable and argent, a double bitted axe counterchanged.

    NAME AND DEVICE PASSED TO LAUREL

    14) Kriemhilt von Ebersberg -- New Device -- Argent, a bend fusily sable
    (Sterling, MI)
    (name reg'd Feb. '01)

    BLAZON CHANGE: Argent, in bend six lozenges conjoined sable.

    Device Commentary

    D&R – Pic Dic states that lozenge is used instead of fusil or fussily, alternative blazon suggestion: Argent, in bend six lozenges conjoined sable.

    NAME AND DEVICE PASSED TO LAUREL

    15) Marguerite le Reed -- New Device -- Gules, a candle argent in a candlestick enflamed Or within an orle argent.
    (Chillicothe, IL)
    (name reg’d Apr ‘98)

    BLAZON CHANGED TO – Gules, a candle argent enflamed in a candlestick Or within an orle argent.

    Device Commentary

    Talan – The blazon makes the candlestick that’s enflamed, better – gules a candle enflamed an in a candlestick Or within an orle argent.

    Knut – blazon suggestion - gules a candle enflamed an in a candlestick Or within an orle argent.

    DEVICE PASSED TO LAUREL

    16) {Sabina Isabella du Maine (F) -- New Name and Device --Per saltire argent and gules, in pale two roses purpure slipped and leaved vert and in fess two butterflies argent.}
    (Shadowed Stars)

    Client will *not* accept major changes and cares for 14th century French.

    BLAZON CHANGED TO – Per saltire argent and gules, two roses purpure slipped and leaved vert and two butterflies argent.

  • ? [Sabina] - Latin feminine form of Sabinus. Sabinus is found in Morlet, "Les Noms de Personne sur le Territoire de l'Ancienne Gaule du VI au SiÚcle," p 175

    [Isabella] -- 14th c., in Juliana de Luna's "Occitan Townspeople in the 14th Century - Women's Names http://www.s-gabriel.org/names/juliana/occitan/occitan-given-women.html

    ? [de Maine] -- Morlet, "Dictionaire Etymologigue des Noms de Famille," 1991 ed., sn Dumaine

  • No dates were given with the documentations. --Esct.

    Name Commentary

    Talan - >? [Sabina] - Latin feminine form of Sabinus. Sabinus is found in Morlet, "Les Noms de Personne sur le Territoire de l'Ancienne Gaule du VI au SiÚcle," p 175

    The correct title is “Les noms de personne sur le territoire de’lancienne Gaule du VI au XII siŔcle’, and the name is found at II:101a (vol. II, p. 101, first column), not p. 175. But the citation is pointless, since it is from the year 506. The later citations are all fro the forms <Savinus> and <Sevinus>, and the only citation for the corresponding feminine name is for <Savina> from a source dating to the 9th century. These are all latin forms; the French form are <Savine> (popular) and <Sabine> (semi-learned), as noted by Dauzat s.n. <Sabin>.

    >[Isabella] -- 14th c., in Juliana de Luna's "Occitan Townspeople in the 14th Century - Women's Names http://www.s-gabriel.org/names/juliana/occitan/occitan-given-women.html

    Occitan is not the same as French. It was a distinct Romance language spoke in the south of what is now France. Maine, on the other hand was in the northwest, adjacent to Brittany and Normandy, among others. The French form is <Isabelle>.

  • >? [de Maine] -- Morlet, "Dictionaire Etymologigue des Noms de Famille," 1991 ed., sn Dumaine
  • Presumably ‘[deMaine]’ is a typo for ‘[du Maine]’.

    French forms of the name are <Savine Isabelle du Maine> and <Sabine Isabelle du Maine>, but neither is appropriate for the 14th century: even in the 15th centry double given names were still vanishingly rare in France. (See Saint Gabriel’s report nr. 2583, www.s-gabriel.org/2583.) If she’s serious about the date and language, she needs to drop one of the forenames.

    NAME RETURNED, CLIENT WILL BE ADVISED OF TALAN’S COMMENTS.
    DEVICE RETURNED WITH NAME.

    17) Sorcha an Chomraic -- New Name and Device -- Purpure, a chevron ermine between three dragons dormant addorsed argent
    (Fenix)

    Client will accept major changes and cares for meaning: 'Sorcha of the Combat'

    BLAZON CHANGED TO – Purpure, a chevron ermine between three dragons dormant wings elevated and addorsed argent.

  • ? ? [Sorcha] -- "Index of Names in Irish Annals: Sorcha" Mari Elspeth nic Bryon (Kathleen M.O'Brien) http://www.s-gabriel.org/names/mari/AnnalsIndex/Feminine/Sorcha.shtml
    "This article entry gives "Sorcha" as an Irish feminine name dating to 1530."

    [an Chomraic] -- "Index of Names in Irish Annals: Descriptive Bynames: an Chomraic," http://gabriel.org/names/mari/AnnalsIndex/DescriptiveBynames/anChomraic.shtml
    "This article entry dates "an Chomraic" to 1582 as an Irish name meaning "of the combat of duel."

  • Name Commentary

    Talan - >? ? [Sorcha] -- "Index of Names in Irish Annals: Sorcha" Mari Elspeth nic Bryon (Kathleen M.O'Brien) http://www.s-gabriel.org/names/mari/AnnalsIndex/Feminine/Sorcha.shtml
    "This article entry gives "Sorcha" as an Irish feminine name dating to 1530."

    More accurately, it’s found in annals for the year 1480. 1500, and 1530.

    >[an Chomraic] -- "Index of Names in Irish Annals: Descriptive Bynames: an Chomraic," http://gabriel.org/names/mari/AnnalsIndex/DescriptiveBynames/anChomraic.shtml
    "This article entry dates "an Chomraic" to 1582 as an Irish name meaning "of the combat of duel."

    The URL is incorrect, it should be:

    http://www.s-gabriel.org/names/mari/AnnalsIndex/DescriptiveByNames/anChomhraic.shtml.

    The form found here is actually <an Chomhraic>, not that <an Chomhraic> is attested only as a man’s byname.

    Device Commentary

    Talan – ‘Addorsed’ describes two charges back-to-back. Presumably it was intended to describe the turning back of the necks. If the detail is worth blazoning, ‘regardand’ could probably be pressed into service.

    Knut – blazon suggestion – Purpure, a chevron ermine between three dragons dormant wings addorsed argent.

    NAME AND DEVICE PASSED TO LAUREL

    18) Sorcha inghen ui Dhonnchaidh (F) -- New Name and Device -- Sable, a triguetra and in chief an increscent, crescent and decrescent argent
    (Mugmort)

    Client will accept major changes.

    BLAZON CHANGE: Sable, a triquetra and in chief an increscent, crescent and decrescent argent

  • ? [Sorcha] -- "Irish Name," Ë Corrain and Maguire, ". . . f. relatively common name in medieval Ireland meaning, 'bright, radiant.' "

    [Dhonnchaidh] -- Irish Name and Surnames, Woulfe, "found under entry Ë Donncava - meaning 'brown warrior' or 'strong warrior'. Dates to 11th century. Ë Donnchaidh given as alternate form."

    [inghean ui Dhonnchaidh] -- feminine form of Ë Donnchaidh

  • Name Commentary

    Talan – It appears from the documentation section that <inghen> is a typo for the correct <inghean>. (The form <inghen> is seen in some documents, but the normalized post-1200 form, wanted here to match <Dhonnchaidh>, is <inghean>.)

  • >? [Sorcha] -- "Irish Name," Ë Corrain and Maguire, ". . . f. relatively common name in medieval Ireland meaning, 'bright, radiant.' "
  • Mari’s Annals pages have instances associated with the years 1480, 1500, and 1530 (http://www.s-gabriel.org/names/mari/AnnalsIndex/Feminine/Sorcha.shtml).

    >[Dhonnchaidh] -- Irish Name and Surnames, Woulfe, "found under entry Ë Donncava

    That should be <Ë Donnchadha>.

  • > meaning 'brown warrior' or 'strong warrior'. Dates to 11th century. Ë Donnchaidh given as alternate form."
  • More accurately, Woulfe says that the sept Ë Donnchadha of Cashel existed in the 11th century; this says nothing about the form of the name.

  • >[inghean ui Dhonnchaidh] -- feminine form of Ë Donnchaidh
  • That should be <UÝ>, not <ui>. <Sorcha inghen uÝ Dhonnchaidh> appears to be a fine late-period Irish feminine name.

    John – Sorcha: see Norman (p. 220, p. 228); prevalent in Ireland 700-1536 AD; Todd (p.71); Conway (p. 24); Woulfe (pp. 53-54); Flanangan (p. 110); Coghlan (p. 66); Zaczek (p. 98).

    Ui Dhonnchaid: see Quinn (pp. 77-78 under ‘MacDonagh’); Quinn (p. 84 under ‘Duncan’); O’Corrian/Maguire (p. 76); Black (p. 228 under ‘Duncan’).

    Device Commentary

    Talan – Typo: the principal charge is a triquetra, not a triguetra. The collection of charges in chief isn’t particularly good style and, like the ‘phases of the moon’ colloction, is probably even a ‘weirdness’, but it appears to be registerable.

    Ary – Typo in blazon: Triquetra. I found no conflicts with the arms.

    Knute – I feel that the three unrelated orientations of the secondaries are a modern form of symmetry and should be considered at least a weirdness.

    D&R – The increscent, crescent, and decrescent in chief smacks of slot-machine heraldry. I have been trying to find a detailed ruling from Laurel precedents; the closest I could find quickly is : “[On a chief, a mullet between a crescent inverted and a crescent] The lack of symmetry as well as the lack of identifiably involved here pushed this over the edge [of acceptability]. (LoAR 30 July 89, p. 12)”

    Also, the crescent (and its variants) should be drawn as proper crescents – with the horns closer together.

    NAME CHANGED TO <Sorcha inghen uÝ Dhonnchaidh> AND PASSED TO LAUREL.

    {THOUGH I AGREE THE CRESCENT AND ITS VARIANTS ARE AWEIRDNESS I’M GOING TO LET LAUREAL MAKE THE FINAL DECISION, CLIENT WILL BE MADE AWARE OF POSSIBLE REASON FOR RETURN}
    DEVICE PASSED TO LAUREL.

    19) {Thorkatla Bjarnardottir (F) -- Name and Device – Per fess wavy argent and purpure, two violets proper and a pair of shears argent}
    (Cuil Choluim)

    Client was 9th-12th century Norse and will accept major changes.

  • ? [Thorkatla] -- Geirr Bassi Haraldsson, "The Old Norse Name," p. 16 list [{TH}orkatla]

    [Bjorndottir] -- According to the client's paperwork: 'Bjorndottir' would seem to be the genitive of "Bjorn's daughter," but the top of p. 18 of Geirr-Bassi indicates "men's given names ending in -Bjorn . . . make their genitives in -bjarnar . . . "

  • Name Commentary

    Talan – The ususal normalized Old Norse forms are <Ůorkatla Bjarnardˇttir>, <Ůorkatala Bjarnar dˇttir>, <Ůorkatla Biarnardˇttir>, and <Ůorkatla Biarnar dˇttir>; the last is closest to early manuscript usage and so best fits the submitter’s preference, but all should be acceptable for period registration. Both names were in use throughout her period (E.H. Lind, Norsk-Islńndska Dopnamn ock Fingerande Namn frňn Medeltiden, Uppsala, 1905-1915, s.nn. <Ůorkatla>, <bio,rn>, where <o,> stands for o-ogonek). The <-s> genitive <Bj÷ns> (and similar forms) is a late development; Lind doesn’t have any examples until well into the 14th century.

    Ary – The name conflicts with <{TH}orkatla Bjarnard{o’}ttir>, registered in September 2000 via Artemisia.

    Device Commentary

    Knute – The ‘shears’ aren’t identifiable as such. They resemble a penannular broach without the pin.

    Talan – The violets are slipped and leaved; the shears are very badly drawn.

    NAME RETURNED FOR CONLFICT WITH {TH}ORKALA BJARNARD{O’}TTIR

    DEVICE RETURNED FOR REDRAW

    20) Ulf des Vandrer -- New Device -- Argent, on a bend sinister azure three naked feet couped inverted argent between two anchors azure
    (Mansfield, OH)
    (name in the Nov ILOI)

     The blazon is how it appears in the paperwork. --Esct.

    BLAZON CHANGED TO – Argent, on a bend sinister between two anchors azure three naked feet couped inverted argent.

    Device Commentary

    Knut & Talan – Blazon suggestion – Argent, on a bend sinster between two anchors azure three naked feet couped inverted argent.

    DEVICE RETURNED TO CLIENT AS THE NAME WAS RETURNED LAST MONTH

    21) Yllaria bas Levi --New Name
    (Cleftlands)

    Client will accept major changes and cares for English 1150-1250.

  • ? ? [Yllaria] -- Feminine Given Names in A Dictionary of English Surnames, http://www.s-gabriel.org/names/talan/reaney/reaney.cgi?Eulalia s.n. Eulalia: Yllaria c. 1200 Hillary; 1203, 1205, 1210

    [bas] -- Glossary for titles and Bynames http://www.yucs.org/~jules/names/titles.html means 'daughter of'

    [Levi] -- Names for Hebrew Chronicles of the 10th to 13th Centuries http://www.yucs.org/~jules/names/crusades.html c. Levi in Neuss, Germany, 1096

  • NAME PASSED TO LAUREL

     


    At your service,

    Lady Phebe Bonadeci

    Rouge Scarpe Herald

    rougescarpe@midrealm.org