[Mid] White Scarf

Greetings and good tidings!

[I get the Bridge in digest, so I'm replying to
multiple posts on this. I'll do my best to make sure
each is properly attributed and snipped.]

> Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 05:24:54 -0500
> From: "Pete Jensen" <black_malcolm@sbcglobal.net>
> Subject: RE: [Mid] White Scarf
>
> I'm going to go ahead and go out on a limb and say
> the obvious but
> politically incorret observation that those kingdoms
> which are signatories
> to the white bel- er, scarf, treaty in many ways
> treat them as unofficial
> peerages; where those who are not signatories to the
> treaty don't extend
> such dignity to their highest level fencing award.

I'm not sure if you're playing devil's advocate here
or stating your personal belief, but I assure you
that's not the purpose, stated or otherwise, of the
White Scarf treaty. As Lord Andrew has already stated,
dignity is where you find it and most people I know
base their opinions and interactions with others based
on personality and experience, not on whatever shiny
bit they may or may not be wearing.

> Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 07:17:45 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Pete Jensen <black_malcolm@sbcglobal.net>
> Subject: RE: [Mid] White Scarf
>
> Not commenting on the dignity or anything, as I
> believe that the Midrealm has long ago proved and
> continues to prove the excellence of their fencers.
> BUT - it has been explained to me that the main
> reason
> that the Midrealm has not signed the WST is that the
> main purpose of the treaty is to endorse a third
> fighting peerage, which the MK does not do.

Again, I think Lord Andrew has beaten me to the punch
on this, but the White Scarf treaty is not an
endoresment of a rapier peerage. The Midrealm laws,
I'm told, preclude a set of royals from entering into
any agreement with another kingdom that would bind a
future set of royals. I'm not sure if this is the sole
reason why Pennsic is renegotiated each year, but I'm
sure it's one of them.

Additionally, it's not a question of whether the
Kingdom supports a rapier peerage that would matter
were the issue to come up for comment for the Board of
Directors. It's a question of what the individual
members of the Society as a whole and at large think
and convey to their representatives to the Board of
Directors. Kingdom support matters not a whit, as far
as I understand it.

> Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 09:46:45 -0500
> From: "Drew" <drew@drewncapris.net>
> Subject: RE: [Mid] White Scarf
<snip>
>
> As a herald, Malcolm, you should know that's not
> true. Even if every
> kingdom signed the treaty, it still would not convey
> a Patent of Arms.

This is very true. The only expectation that I recall
is that the White Scarf is *customarily* the highest
level rapier award given in the signatory kingdoms. If
the kingdom only gives one award specifically for
rapier, and that award is armigerous and conveys and
Award of Arms if the recipient does not already have
one, the award is equivalent to an Award of Arms.

However, the new awards for Northshield include a
different AOA level rapier award - the Order of the
White Glove - so in choosing to sign the treaty, Their
Stellar Majesties also chose to create a Grant of Arms
level rapier award. Not all signatories to the treaty
do this, though, nor is it required.

> Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 10:36:33 -0500
> From: "Drew" <drew@drewncapris.net>
> Subject: RE: [Mid] White Scarf
>
<snip>
> qualities that may be harder to judge. By having
> the WS treaty, the WS
> kingdoms can say "these two people, from two
> different kingdoms, meet the
> same level of excellence in all things defined by
> this order." By not
> having the WS treaty, the MidRealm requires more
> discussion when doing that.

That's not entirely the case. As stated above, it is
*customary* that the White Scarf be the highest rapier
award in the Kingdom. It is not required in the treaty
that it convey a Grant of Arms, nor that it be given
for a certain level of expertise or excellence.

> Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 11:54:09 -0400
> From: Lord Caedmon Wilson <caedmon.wilson@gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Mid] White Scarf
>
<snip>
> As for the whole new peerage arguments, it is about
> pointless. There
> are people in power now that are of the firm belief
> a 4th and 5th
> peerage isn't needed, and no amount of yelling,
> writing or begging is
> going to change their minds. Until the old guard
> steps down and makes
> way from the next generation, the mud will continue
> to hold the old
> ways in place.

I disagree, m'lord. Several years ago there was a call
for discussion and opinion on the creation of a rapier
peerage from the Board of Directors. If memory serves
there was so little comment from the members of the
Society that the Board decided they did not have
enough information on which to make a decision.

No single person or small group is preventing
anything. Any member of the Society can raise an issue
for consideration with the Board of Directors. Our
Board is not a dictatorship; if there is sufficient
interest and comment on a topic, they will take it up.
On this topic, however, to date there has not been.

In service,

/a

=====
Aine ingen MaelPatraic
Barony of Jararvellir
Kingdom of Northshield

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Received on Tue Oct 19 13:23:56 2004